奥雷·舍人：大胆的叙事想象引领，务实的建筑实施落地

Buro Ole Scheeren总建筑师 奥雷·舍人

摄影：Felix Gruenschloss

与许多大器晚成的建筑师不同，德国建筑师奥雷·舍人一直给人雄心勃勃、年轻有为的印象。年仅31岁时，他就主持设计了CCTV央视大楼，建筑以卓尔不群的姿态，成为举世瞩目的城市地标。多年的职业生涯中，舍人令人称道的建成项目不少都位于中国乃至亚洲地区，包括北京嘉德艺术中心、上海云际尚浦，以及新加坡DUO双景坊、泰国曼谷王权大京都大厦(Mahanakhon)等。秉持“建筑充分体现城市意识”的理念，舍人在近期成功中标Tencent Helix腾讯全球总部项目，建筑体量超大，外观颇具未来感，有望成为现象级力作。

 

Archcy：您如何设想Tencent Helix项目的概念？

How do you envision the concept of Tencent Helix project?

奥雷·舍人：Tencent Helix项目是腾讯的全球总部，是全球其中一个最具创新性和前瞻性的科技公司的未来总部概念。这是一个非常庞大的项目，规模是苹果公司在加利福尼亚的园区的两倍。面对如此规模的项目，设计师必须考虑一个非常清晰的方式来构建它。设计包含多个功能，这些功能在独立运作的同时融合成一个互动空间。Helix动态旋转就像一个融合仓，将不同的工作空间、部门、员工和工作人员聚集到一个高度协作、交流的环境中。这个空间致力于交流、合作、创新和分享想法。Helix的动态概念不仅塑造了建筑的形式和表达，也成为了统一公司内各个方面和个体的策略。

The Tencent Helix project represents the future of corporate headquarters for one of the world’s most innovative and progressive tech companies. It’s a very large project, twice the size of Apple’s campus in California. With a project of this scale, one has to think about a very clear way to structure it. The design includes multiple components that function independently while being fused into an interactive space. The twisting motion of the Helix acts as a fusion chamber, bringing together different workspaces, departments, employees, and staff into a highly interactive and social environment. This space is dedicated to exchange, collaboration, innovation, and the sharing of ideas. The vortex-like movement of the Helix not only shapes the building's form and expression but also serves as a strategy to unite various aspects and individuals within the company.

Tencent Helix by Ole Scheeren@Buro-OS

Tencent Helix by Ole Scheeren@Buro-OS

Archcy：能赢得投标并击败所有其他著名竞争对手的原因是什么？ 

What is the reason of success in winning the bid and beating all the other famous competitors?

奥雷·舍人：我坚信我们成功地将项目的众多方面和雄心结合成一个连贯的模型，这个模型表达了一个充满活力、创新的公司形象。我们将这座大型建筑构建成一个功能齐全且极具动态和互动性的空间。此外，我们的方案不仅限于建筑本身，还包括一个城市概念，延伸到整个岛屿的总体规划。Helix的动态旋转概念统一了城市环境，为解决挑战提供了一个整体的愿景。

I believe we successfully combined numerous aspects and ambitions of the project into a coherent model that expresses the identity of a dynamic, innovative company. We structured this large building into a functional yet highly dynamic and interactive space. Moreover, our proposal extended beyond the building itself to include an urban concept, addressing the master plan for the entire island. The motion of the Helix unifies the urban setting, presenting a holistic vision for resolving the challenge.

Tencent Helix by Ole Scheeren@Buro-OS

Archcy：您多次表达了“形式追随叙事”的观点。以Tencent Helix项目为例，在建筑存在之前，您心中的故事是什么样的？能否详细说明一下？

You've been stating the opinion "Form follows Fiction" on various occasions. Taking Tencent Helix as an example, what is the fiction like in your mind before the building exists? Can you elaborate on it?

奥雷·舍人：对我来说，叙事的概念指的是想象人们在我们创造的建筑和空间中未来的生活，从而引导我们的设计过程。对于Tencent Helix而言，这种故事包含了从普通员工到管理层，从访客到技术专家，他们将如何在建筑中体验生活。设计设想了他们在工作空间和公共区域之间的体验，建筑本身作一个融合的空间促进了协作和沟通。这一叙事包括了如何通过不同的项目元素如何增强一个人的生活旅程，包括提供户外空间和中央漩涡花园这样一个对所有员工开放的公园。底层是一个巨大的城市论坛，设有食堂、商店和零售区域，将项目嵌入城市环境中。

For me, the notion of fiction refers to imagining people's lives in the future, within the buildings and spaces we create, guiding our design process. For the Tencent Helix, the fiction encompassed how employees, from staff to management and visitors to tech experts, would experience life in the building. It envisioned their experiences between workspaces and communal areas, with the vortex itself acting as a fusion chamber for collaboration and communication. This narrative included how different project elements would enhance a person’s daily journey, with access to outdoor spaces and the central Vortex Garden—a park accessible to all employees. The ground floor, a vast urban forum with canteens, shops, and retail, embeds the project in an urban context.

Tencent Helix by Ole Scheeren@Buro-OS

Tencent Helix by Ole Scheeren@Buro-OS

Archcy：在曼谷MahaNakhon项目中，您将疯狂的想象变成了现实。您被描绘为一个反直觉的建筑师，有一种不可抗拒的冲动去打破常规思考。您同意这种说法吗？ 

In MahaNakhon, you have turned crazy imagination into reality. And you are depicted as a counterintuitive architect, who has an irresistible urge to think out of box. Do you agree with that？ 

奥雷·舍人：实际上，我认为自己是一个非常追随直觉的建筑师，而不是反直觉的。直觉是设计过程中的一个重要工具，它允许我们质疑甚至有时推翻详细研究和细致工作所得到的结论。我最底层的兴趣是创造新的原型和质疑现状是否总是最佳方式。探索其他可能性可以帮助塑造不同的环境和更好的未来。

I actually consider myself a very intuitive architect, not counterintuitive. Intuition is an important tool in the design process, allowing us to question and sometimes contradict the findings of detailed research and meticulous work that architecture requires. I am fundamentally interested in creating new prototypes and questioning whether the status quo is always the best way. Exploring other possibilities can help shape a different environment and a better future.

MahaNakhon by Buro Ole Scheeren © Buro-OS

摄影：Srirath Somsawat

MahaNakhon by Buro Ole Scheeren © Buro-OS

摄影：Srirath Somsawat

Archcy：作为您职业生涯中的一个里程碑，央视总部大楼的建设是一个费尽心血的旅程，为此您在七年里没有享受过任何年假。您与华东建筑设计研究院（ECADI）的合作异常紧密，而ECADI团队也与大都会建筑事务所（OMA鹿特丹 ）团队合作了一年。回顾过去，您能和我们分享一些领导近400人项目团队的难忘故事吗？

As a milestone in your career, CCTV headquarter has been a painstaking journey, which deprived you any annual leave in seven years. The collaboration between you and ECADI had been unusually close, while the ECADI team has been working with OMA Rotterdam team for a year.  Looking back, could you share with us a couple of unforgettable stories on leading almost 400-people project team?

奥雷·舍人：当我在2002年开始从事央视项目时，那还是中国大规模建设热潮的早期阶段。我认为，专注于美学和技术挑战以及实现这样一个项目所需的过程是极其重要的。这个过程强调了文化交流、合作，以及共同努力可以达成许多仅靠个体无法达到的事情。我在与中央电视台的合同中加入了从一开始就让ECADI参与进来的要求，将他们的工作人员整合到鹿特丹的团队中，反之亦然。这种真正的合作是项目成功的关键。一个突出的成就例子就是结构工程，它如此先进，以至于没有任何现有的系统能够处理审批。我们创建了一个专家小组审查流程，革新了中国先锋项目的审批方式，并为未来的创新铺平了道路。

When I started working on CCTV in 2002, it was still the early days of China's big construction boom. I believed it was incredibly important to focus on both aesthetic and technical challenges, as well as the process necessary to realize such a project. This process emphasized cultural exchange, collaboration, and the idea that working together could achieve things unattainable alone. I made it a part of the contract with CCTV to involve ECADI from the very beginning, integrating their staff into our team in Rotterdam and vice versa. This true collaboration was key to the project's success. As an example of an outstanding achievement was the structural engineering, which was so advanced that no existing systems could handle the approvals. We created an expert panel review process, revolutionizing how progressive projects were approved in China and paving the way for future innovations.

CCTV by Rem Koolhaas and Ole Scheeren © OMA

摄影：Iwan Baan

Archcy：关于超高层建筑的立面材质（云际尚浦/新加坡DUO等），在与立面顾问讨论了建筑标志性、材料标准和成本控制问题后，最终材质是如何确定的？

Regarding the facade materials of ultra-Highrise building (The Axiom Shanghai / DUO Singapore etc.) how do you finalize the material plan after discussing around the building iconics, material criteria and cost control issues with the facade consultant?

奥雷·舍人：材质的选择与项目的概念基础同样重要。随着项目的发展，涉及到广泛的研究、测试和创新。在美学目标和预算问题之间总是需要取得平衡。例如，DUO和云际尚浦的立面是智能系统，它们采用简单的理念并加入独特元素，以创造强烈的视觉冲击力和标识性，而不复杂化这两种立面的运作方式。这些立面在功能性、美学、耐用性和材料选择方面都是经过精心调整的，是由我们的团队、立面顾问和客户之间协作开发的。

Material choices are as important as the conceptual foundation of a project. As the project evolves, extensive research, testing, and innovation are involved. There's always a balance between aesthetic ambitions and budget concerns. For instance, the facades of DUO and The Axiom are intelligent systems that take simple ideas and add unique elements to create a strong visual impact and identity without complicating the way in which these two facades are functioning. These facades are finely tuned models of functionality, aesthetics, durability, and material selection, developed collaboratively between our team, the facade consultant, and the client.

The Axiom by Ole Scheeren © Buro-OS

摄影：Iwan Baan

DUO by Ole Scheeren © Buro-OS

摄影：Iwan Baan

Archcy：通过多年在中国从事建筑实践并完成大型建筑项目，您不得不面对挑剔的业主和复杂的情况。作为一个建筑师和作为个人，您有哪些微妙的变化呢？

Through multiple years of practicing architecture and completing large-scale buildings in China, you had to deal with difficult owners and complex situation. What are the subtle changes as an architect and as a person?

奥雷·舍人：多年来，经历高度复杂的情况并且着眼于从概念到建成的路径，教会了我每个项目都有推动边界并找到更好解决方案的机会。每个项目都具有难以置信的潜力，可以创新、创造，并为建筑、业主乃至整个社会增加价值。因为我相信，这是建筑的最终目标。

Over the years, experiencing highly complex situations and witnessing the path from concept to reality has taught me that each project offers an opportunity to push boundaries and find better solutions. Each project bears incredible potential to be inventive, creative, and add value not only to the building and owner but also to society at large. Because I believe that this is the ultimate goal of architecture. 

The Interlace by OMA/Ole Scheeren

摄影: Jason Lim

Archcy：多年前您在柏林和伦敦设立了办公室，试图将在中国学到的建筑方法带到西方。对于正在进行的项目，您在中国的经验是如何影响您对温哥华Fifteen Fifteen和法兰克福Riverpark Tower的构想？

You had established offices in Berlin and London years ago, attempting to bring the architectural approaches learnings from China to the West. For the ongoing projects, how do your experiences in China impact the way you conceive Fifteen Fifteen Vancouver and Riverpark Tower Frankfurt?

奥雷·舍人：中国向我展示了未来的潜力。通过大胆的思考和现实且智慧的方式，可以在全球范围内实现伟大和创新的建筑。法兰克福和温哥华的两个项目都探索了在亚洲生发出的理念，并将其适应到它们各自的西方背景中。它们证明了在工作方式上可以具有前瞻性，面向未来。

China has shown me the potential of the future. With courageous thinking and realistic, intelligent approaches, it’s possible to accomplish great and innovative architecture globally. Both projects in Frankfurt and Vancouver explore ideas developed in Asia, adapted to their respective Western contexts. They demonstrate that it's possible to be progressive and future-oriented in the ways of working.

Fifteen Fifteen by Ole Scheeren @ Buro-OS

Riverpark Tower by Ole Scheeren © Buro-OS

Archcy：公司的未来发展规划是什么？ 

What are the future plans for the firm?

奥雷·舍人：我们的全球工作正在扩大，分布在多个大陆的办公室正在进行密切的合作。团队之间持续的合作，学习和分享非常重要，并且这种合作在不断增长。我们参与了许多项目，探索建筑的新可持续愿景，强调建筑是一项基本的社会活动。我们的目标是进一步追求一个对社会和生态负责的未来愿景。

Our global work is expanding, with many offices across multiple continents collaborating intensely. The ongoing project of collaboration, learning, and sharing among our teams is very important and continues to grow. We are involved in many projects that explore new sustainable visions for architecture, emphasizing architecture as a fundamentally social undertaking. We aim to further pursue a socially and ecologically responsible vision for the future.

Scenic City by Ole Scheeren © Buro-OS